Vicipaedia:Taberna/Tabularium 6

Index

[recensere] Tituli: praeses versus praesidens

L&S implies praeses is Augustan and says praesidens is post-Augustan. Is there a reason we're preferring the latter? IacobusAmor 17:07, 20 Iulii 2007 (UTC)

The Oxford Latin Dictionary doesn't even suggest praesidens --Harrissimo 18:07, 20 Iulii 2007 (UTC)
And Harvard diplomas call the President of Harvard College its praeses, as does the fanfare commonly known as the "Harvard Anthem" (by John Knowles Paine, 1843): "Domine, salvum fac praesidem nostrum, nostrum praesidem, et exaudi nos in die qua invocaverimus te" (http://www.aliquis.plus.com/NG/HarvardAnthem.mp3). Rather stirring, don't you think? (The performance, being outdoors, with what amounts to a pickup orchestra & choir, may leave something to be desired.) In the middle of each iteration, just after the second praesidem, the music has a harmonic change that anticipated by a couple of decades a nice juncture in the theme of the fourth movement of Brahms's first symphony. IacobusAmor 18:21, 20 Iulii 2007 (UTC)
Who is preferring? (I haven't kept up on all the latest presidents' edits . . . ) I, for my part, am not preferring praesidens. Viva praeses ( appellatio tantum, not Georgius Ambulans =] ). --Ioscius (disp) 04:51, 21 Iulii 2007 (UTC)
I, too am supporting praeses. --Harrissimo 09:32, 21 Iulii 2007 (UTC)
Me too, but somebody has been preferring praesidens, as a search will show! Iam est nobis commentarium Praesidens. IacobusAmor 12:01, 21 Iulii 2007 (UTC)
A damned lot of entries, man, this will take me all weekend.--Ioscius (disp) 14:18, 21 Iulii 2007 (UTC)
I will help you :) --Harrissimo 14:45, 21 Iulii 2007 (UTC)
Thanks! =] --Ioscius (disp) 15:16, 21 Iulii 2007 (UTC)

[recensere] Creativae communes.

Quaero traductionem texti licentiae operarum creativarum communium. Interrogo quid facitur in libris latinis quo istam licentiam impendant. - Waelsch

Nescio. Da exemplum in lingua alia, et petiturus (vel conversurus =]) ero.--Ioscius (disp) 04:49, 21 Iulii 2007 (UTC)

[recensere] Pagina fontium et quaestio de pagina auxiliaria

Ecce "The Latin Library" [1].

Nescio an iam est in Vicipaedia id nexus. Aliquando in pagina auxiliaria cum nexus huiusmodi fui, quae nondum reperire possum (nescio an propter stultitiam meam aut propter inertiam in lingua latina). Propterea quaestionem habeo: Estne possibilis indicem nexum auxiliarium in paginam primam aut paginam "adiutatum" transferre? Aut universaliter in locum ubi etiam schwachmatici in lingua latina id invenire possunt? --Partonopier 08:57, 21 Iulii 2007 (UTC)

[recensere] Finnish Names - EPISODE II

Salvete! IacobusAmor found me this table to use for the genitive of Finnish place names, which I have updated slightly. Firstly, do any of you disagree with any of the table's suggestions and secondly, there are a lot of places in Finland which have names ending in (-aa or -ää) which I don't know who to make into the genitive, one instance of (-uu) and also there are two Swedish town names (Jakobstad and Raseborg) which I'm not sure about. I could, of course, just use their declinable Finnish names and put the Swedish ones in brackets, but that goes against all of the other Wikipedias (except Finnish.) --Harrissimo 16:39, 21 Iulii 2007 (UTC)

That suffix -borg probably = -burg, which in Latin is often (if I'm remembering rightly) -burgia. And is -stad similary -stadia? There's a table of these things somewhere. IacobusAmor 19:15, 21 Iulii 2007 (UTC)
I'm definite that -stad is -stadium, because it's in a lot of German and Swedish place names. Was this table in Vicipaedia? --Harrissimo 20:10, 21 Iulii 2007 (UTC)
Hahaha, I found the table! It's here, at the Translation of place names section. So, hypothetically, the names would be Jakobstadium and Raseburgu(m/s) However, the question remains: are we backtracking by latinising an unsourced place name? --Harrissimo 20:21, 21 Iulii 2007 (UTC)
How do we explain Kronstadia (not Kronstadium)? or is that an inflected form in Finnish? IacobusAmor 15:27, 22 Iulii 2007 (UTC)
Where have you seen Kronstadia? When I search there are only a few hits... --Harrissimo 15:34, 22 Iulii 2007 (UTC)
Google has six hits, and they all appear to be in Finnish. IacobusAmor 15:53, 22 Iulii 2007 (UTC)

That probably means it is just an inflected form, then. --Harrissimo 22:54, 22 Iulii 2007 (UTC)

Yes, all occurrences are partitive/accusative forms (Finnish nominative being Kronstad, i.e. the Swedish name as such). --Neander 00:56, 23 Iulii 2007 (UTC)
Do you agree with this table Neander? You suggested in another discussion that we should use 'Ekenäsii' rather thank just 'Ekenäe' --Harrissimo 10:27, 23 Iulii 2007 (UTC)
Well, sometimes it might be expedient to resort to morphological suffixation (e.g. Aboa < Åbo = Turkua < Turku; cf. Missuria < Missouri), sometimes it might be better to resort to the schema or phonological gestalt supplied by final elements of the word. (Sorry for the linguistic jargon!) A few comments off the cuff: Hanko: The problem with Hanko, -onis is that the -ōnis suffix presupposes a long final (Hankō) – Japanese Hokkaidō, -ōnis is a case in point – but the Finnish Hanko ends in a short vowel (Hankŏ). Theoretically, then, Hanko should be Hanko, Hankinis (cf. cardo, cardinis), but this may be nitpicking. Perhaps a morphological solution (Hankoa, -ae) is better (though it smacks of Hawaiian ... :-) Well, I really don't know. Maybe Hanko,-onis does as well as Kaskinen (below). Forssa, -ae looks good. But words ending in -ä are a bit tougher. Theoretically, the final -ä (e.g. Mäntsälä) is, as a matter of fact, -a which goes automatically to -ä by dint of the Finnish vowel harmony. Maybe the Latin representation of Mäntsälä &c could be somewhat abstract, viz. Mäntsala, -ae. Anjalankoski: the model could be senapi, gummi &c which tend to be indeclinable or -is &c. (So, probably OK.) Kaskinen: gen. Kaskinenis ... well, why not (though in Finnish the inflectional stem is Kaskis-, that's why it looks a bit weird). Närpes: gen. Närpei would presuppose Närpēs, but the /e/ is short in Swedish. So, to nitpick again, Närpes should go along with miles, -itis (but Närpes, Närpitis may be funny-finicky). Maybe I'd say Närpes, Närpesii (but no nominative à la Närpesium!). Pargas: those who know languages often toy with the Hispanesque Las Pargas, but that won't help us – just trying to be funny while thinking ... – well, maybe I'd try Pargas, Pargasii as well ... though Pargas, Pargae doesn't look as bad as Ekenas, Ekenae (owing to the fact that näs is a word in its own right, meaning 'cape'). --Neander 20:34, 24 Iulii 2007 (UTC)
It's lucky I had such bad examples! I have made a second draft of the table, trying to make the names fit in to latin declension as much as possible. On the article pages I will try to do "XYZ (-zyx) (IPA: ʒɠɶɤ)" so the reader won't become confused. Can you suggest anything for -aa, -ää and -uu? --Harrissimo 22:14, 24 Iulii 2007 (UTC)
Well, maybe Akaa &c could be cited as Akaa and analysed (from the Latin pov) as consisting of the stem Aka- and the 1st decl. ending -a; thus, Akaa, Akaae (first I thought of Akae, but that might be a bit opaque). In Hyvinkää, the final -ää, again, results from vowel harmony (/y/ being a front vowel); so, if the Latin word is built on the Finnish model, as it probably should, we'd have Hyvinkaa, Hyvinkaae (i.e. /hyvinka+a, hyvinka+ae/). Personally, I might want to build the Latin word, in this case, on the Swedish name Hyvinge and say Hyvinga, Hyvingae. I admit this looks all rather artificial and far-fetched. On the other hand, I'm not happy with lemmata too deviant from the original. BTW, now that I see Hanko, -inis and Närpes, -itis, I'm afraid they may look a bit perverse, after all. Though they're perfect from the pov of Latin morphophonology, they look funny in the same way as constructing, in English, the plural bine for bow on the model of cow, kine; or saying applew as the past form of apply on the model of fly, flew, etc. (No pun intended :-) For Närpes, -etis I'd definitely prefer Närpes, Närpesii; and Hanko, -onis looks better, despite its linguistic nonchalance. --Neander 00:57, 25 Iulii 2007 (UTC)

As usual these days I'm just passing through. The original finnish declension chart was written in the days before we started regularly citing sources, so it looks like we just made it up. But in fact, the original version came from Tuomo Pekkanen's Kalevala Latina. In the introduction he lays out the system he used to decline proper nouns, and seems to imply that this system is in widespread use among Finnish Latinists. It looks like I'll have to give you guys the full quote, when I can find a moment (I;m desperately trying to get ready for the Conventiculum Latinum Lexintoniense.) --Iustinus 00:31, 25 Iulii 2007 (UTC)

How come, I've never seen Kalevala Latina (shame on me!), but I have full respect to the senior colleague, whose expertness exceeds mine in many ways. Maybe it's time to go back to square one? --Neander 01:14, 25 Iulii 2007 (UTC)
There is one short paragraph on Latin declension in Pekkanen's preface.

Ea nomina, quae verti non possunt, Latine declinavi: Ahto, -onis, Kullervo, -onis, Sariola, -ae, Hiisi, -sis, Väinämöinen, -möinis, Lemminkäinen, -käinis, Ilmarinen, -rinis, etc. ut apud nostrates assolet

. That's all. In the Kalevala text itself, however, I noted two things; namely 1) that he did not consistently stick to the rules laid out here (e.g. Lempo, Lempis rather than Lemponis 2)concerning ä as a stem vowel: he simply changed the relevant ä to a in the ending (see Disputatio Usoris:Harrissimo. --Iovis Fulmen 19:06, 31 Iulii 2007 (UTC)
Given Pekkanen's model, Kaskinen (in the table Harrissimo refers to above) would be Kaskinen, Kaskininis (cf. Ilmarinen, -inis). --Neander 19:27, 31 Iulii 2007 (UTC)
I hope not! But he writes Väinämöinis and Ilmarinis, not Ilmarininis (cf. unguen, unguinis and similar words).--Iovis Fulmen 19:31, 31 Iulii 2007 (UTC) P.S. I take it it would sound better to Finnish ears to change the table so that names ending in -inen get -inis as their genitives?
You're right, Jupiterin salama! I'm abashed at having committed an elementary kind of cognitive error. The Pekkanen-right form would be, of course, Kaskinen, Kaskinis. Terveisin --Neander 02:12, 1 Augusti 2007 (UTC)
Oh, I made the same mistake when I came up with unguen as an example because this is how it's not done.--Iovis Fulmen 06:38, 2 Augusti 2007 (UTC)

[recensere] Not just Finnish names

Re Neander's comment: "The problem with Hanko, -onis is that the -ōnis suffix presupposes a long final (Hankō)."—Now that's a really interesting point because it opens up a can of worms in other languages. All the vowels in Hawai‘i, the Hawaiian name for the famous island & archipelago, are short, but Traupman ignores that phonology so he can convert the name to Havaiī and put it in the second declension (as a nominative plural). On that basis, elsewhere in Polynesia, Manihiki becomes Manihikī, -ōrum and Viti becomes Vitī, -ōrum. The larger principle appears to be that Latinization can ignore indigenous length when it needs to. IacobusAmor 23:25, 24 Iulii 2007 (UTC)

OK, draft numero trois has just been made, reinstating -onis and adding Neander's second suggestions. Number four will probably be out if kalevala has anything new. --Harrissimo 13:47, 25 Iulii 2007 (UTC)

[recensere] Gun

This seems like an odd question, but is there a Latin word for 'gun'? --Secundus Zephyrus 14:49, 22 Iulii 2007 (UTC)

Vocabularium meum dicit "sclopetum". --Partonopier 15:04, 22 Iulii 2007 (UTC)
Sine dubio est "sclopetum".--Ioscius (disp) 15:16, 22 Iulii 2007 (UTC)
Et vide wikt:sclopetum! --Alex1011 12:19, 23 Iulii 2007 (UTC)

[recensere] Declinatio nominum Graecorum

Consentio de suggestione tua paginae meae de nominibus Graecis movendae ad locum publicum. Quomodo id perficiemus? --Fabullus 10:18, 23 Iulii 2007 (UTC)

Fortasse in Vicilibri? Vel simpliciter sub Grammaticae categoria paginam nomine "Declinatio nominum Graecorum" faciamus. --Alex1011 11:12, 23 Iulii 2007 (UTC)
Etiam, fortasse sit contribuenda cum Translitteratio Linguae Graecae.--Ioscius (disp) 11:53, 25 Iulii 2007 (UTC)
I think we should have this article in the article namespace. And it can be merged later. Btw, I wonder that it seems no other Wikipedia has such articles about the Greek language ... though, the Germans have de:Deutsche Deklination. --Rolandus 22:21, 5 Augusti 2007 (UTC)
Magnas vobis gratias ago ob suggestiones vestras. Pagina tamen mea non est de nominibus Graecis per se, Rolande, sed de nominibus Graecis in linguam Latinam transferendis. Quamobrem magis mihi videtur tractandam ut instrumentum quam ut lemma vicipaedianum ipso iure. Quid cernetis? Interea recensere eam pergam in loco ubi nunc sita est. Ceterum libenter accipiam et hic emendationes et additamenta aliorum vicipaedianorum. Facite ut valeatis.--Fabullus 08:29, 6 Augusti 2007 (UTC)

[recensere] Oval Office

What would the latin translation of "oval" office be? Oval is listed in the dictionary is listed as coming from the neo-latin "ovalis." Therfore, should it be "officina ovalis" or "sedes officinae ovalis" or something else?Andy85719 06:43, 25 Iulii 2007 (UTC)

The OLMD says ovatus and that always uses classical sources, I think. So maybe officina ovata (or vice-versa). But several places on the internet also say ovalis. --Harrissimo 13:37, 25 Iulii 2007 (UTC)
Ha ha ha! Ovata also means rejoiced. Seems appropriate after Bill Clinton.Andy85719 22:52, 25 Iulii 2007 (UTC)

[recensere] Ahh. Chemical nomenclature

I noticed that the chemical elements pages were lacking consistancy and decided to make a standard table. However, I soon realized that I couldn't figure out the right translations for several things. What would electronegativity translate to? Or even point of vaporization?

Here are some terms that need to be translated before I can complete the table. I hope some know the proper translation.

Heat of vaporization
Crystal structure (There is already some else's translation on the some pages but I am not sure about it.) Oxidation State
Ionization Energies
Group, block, and period. (Some already have these named but they don't seem right. I know glaeba is used to mean a clump of earth but I am not clear about it meaning a group. I am also not sure of the direct translation periodus clearly fits the definition of period.)
Electron configuraion
Covalent radius
Magnetic Ordering
Mohs, Vickers, and Brinell hardness

There might be more. Hmm? Glaeba? Also, someone's translation of melting point as punctum liquofactu is making me wonder. Why is this person using the ablative here while using the genitive in punctum fervoris? New fangled terminology is proving very difficult. While early terms are in Latin, later terms originated in German or English and therefore are not complying easily. Puto dum scribo.Andy85719 22:43, 25 Iulii 2007 (UTC)

  • Electron Configuration = configuratio electronis

I have no idea what any of the other stuff is (even in English) sorry, --Harrissimo 22:55, 25 Iulii 2007 (UTC)

Magnetic Ordering could be translated as "Collocatio Magneticum," and since afaik Mohs Vickers and Brinell are all names, the last one could be "Duramen Mohs/Vickers/Brinell." I think the answer for the rest would be to determine the origins of each of the English terms, and then just work out latin forms from there. And "Electron Configuration" should be "Configuratio Electronum" not "Configuratio Electronis."
Well, it should end in -a whatever it is. All these nouns you have are feminine. And instead of collocatio, why not ordinatio? (electronicA, chemicA, magneticA)--Ioscius (disp) 03:49, 18 Augusti 2007 (UTC)

[recensere] Termini religiosi aliarum linguarum

Scribens sum aliquod pro pagina Mystica et nescio, quomodo termini religiosi convertendi sunt. Id est: sanscritice Brahman, Atman; graece exstasis; hebraice Kabbala, Sephirot et alii. Quid putatis, melior sit nomines aliena uti? Aut scitis vocabularium terminorum eius modi? --Partonopier 11:07, 26 Iulii 2007 (UTC)

[recensere] Estne hæc Wikipædia LATINA ???

Ignoscite, sodales, sed cujusnam linguæ est hæc Wikipædia? In Catalonicá Viquipèdia disputationes fiunt Catalonicé, in Vasconicá Wikipedia Vasconicé, in esperanticá Vikipedio esperanticé, ... Curnam inferorum in hác tantum Wikipædiá nomine tenus LATINÁ praecipuæ disputationes fiunt ANGLICÉ ???!!! Quæso deleantur ab hac Wikipædiá Latiná omnia quæ non sint scripta linguá nostrá. Gratias vobis ago in antecessús.

Ut diximus, et confiteor ad me taedendum, haec est encyclopaedia Latina. Si, ope linguarum aliarum, possimus optimam encyclopaediam Latinam creare, quidni? Tuine re vera nocemus, barbarice disputantes? Opportet, si id fieri potest, credo, adolescere. --Ioscius (disp) 15:50, 26 Iulii 2007 (UTC)
Oportet etiam discere Latiné. Ceterum, equidem jam diu adolevi.
Sine dubio Vicipaedia linguae latinae est. Sed Catalones linguam Catalanam quam linguam maternam habent ut disputent, Vascones linguam vasconam. Et puto linguam esperanticam facilius esse quam Latinam etiam si nemo eam quam linguam maternam habet. --Partonopier 16:47, 26 Iulii 2007 (UTC)
Profecto, "si ope linguarum aliarum possimus optimam encyclopædiam Latinam creare", equidem faverem inceptui. Quo tamen modo possunt "optimam encyclopædiam Latinam creare" ei qui Latiné parum sciunt? Ego sæpius conatus sum hanc Latinam encyclopædiam multimodis augere sed postea veniunt quidam ignorantes, qui ne intelligibili quidem —nedum boná— possunt scribere Latinitate, et quæ addidi "corrigunt" (nempe in pejus) vel delent omnino. Tales ignorantes hujus "Latinæ" (nomine tenus) encyclopædiæ potiti sunt. Tantum cum veri eruditi quique linguam Latinam bene calleant hanc Wikipædiam moderabuntur poterimus habere "optimam encyclopædiam Latinam". Tales eruditos invenietis sine difficultate in Grege Latiné Loquentium. Ceterum, hocc obliviscimini: non omnes boni Latinistæ sciunt Anglicé; ergo si Anglicé disputatis, multos bonos Latinistas qui possent multa conferre ut "optimam encyclopædiam Latinam" crearemus male arcetis. Immo, hoc vobis dico: bene scio —quia mihi nonnulli hoc dixerunt— abundantiam linguæ Anglicæ in hac "Latiná" encyclopædiá esse causam quominus multi optimi Latinistæ non participent. Secunda causa est quod si quid quis bonus Latinista híc scribit, quilibet linguæ Latinæ ignorantes jus se arrogant Latinitatis in pejus mutandæ.
Sed fortasse tales "ignorantes" linguae Latinae experti aliarum disciplinarum sunt. Puto Vicipaediam plus indigere peritis variarum scientiarum quam hominibus summi ingenii in lingua Latina, nonne? Etiam Latinitas excellentissima sine argumentum non facit paginam. --Partonopier 11:27, 27 Iulii 2007 (UTC)
Notandum est multi editores Wikipediae Anglicae pessime linguam Anglicam scribere; nihilominus contributa eorum interdum utillima sunt. In Wikipedia Anglica habes expertos rerum, expertos linguae, expertos paginas pulchras componere; cur non hic? Vicipaedia est opus collaborativum. Andrew Dalby 11:58, 27 Iulii 2007 (UTC)
Rectissimé ambo dicitis. Ego non nego nobis opus esse omnium scientiarum peritis, potius doleo quod propter colloquia in linguá multis optimis Latinistis ignotá difficilior est eis accessus ad has disputationes, ideoque abeunt; doleo etiam quod minus linguæ Latinæ peritos pessimas leges orthographicas eruditioribus imponere conentur Latinitatemque peritiorum continenter "emendent", quæ et alia causa est ut tales linguæ Latinæ peritiores identidem frustrati proposita sua collaborandi tandem deponere cupiant.
Certe, etiam recte dicis. Sed rursus mali Latinistae, qui fortasse experti aliarum scientiarum sunt, deterrentur et cooperatione perhibentur. Consentio usore Andrew Dalby quod melius sit in pagina disputationis indulgere. Et quaestio emendationum dubiarum non solum in Vicipaedia latina est sed generaliter in principio 'wiki'. Id solus solvi potest labore administratorum. --Partonopier 15:28, 28 Iulii 2007 (UTC)
Consentio et ego, eá de causá magni momenti est ut administratores sint boni, neque arbitrario more se gerant, sed optimis fundamentis philologicis (vide infra, necnon híc, sed præsertim híc: Auxilium pro editione (latine)). Avitus 09:30, 31 Iulii 2007 (UTC)

Salve, hoc puncto ignote! Aliquot dies afui. Heri vidi hunc sermonem, quem credo etiam ad me attinere.

In Catalonicá Viquipèdia disputationes fiunt Catalonicé, in Vasconicá Wikipedia Vasconicé, in esperanticá Vikipedio esperanticé, ...

Doleo, quod a collatione tam falsa proficisceris. Qui Vicipaediam Catalonicam aut Vasconicam contribuunt plerumque sermone patrio maternave lingua utuntur. Qui Esperanticam, lingua nempe aliis faciliore (ut volunt) utuntur; si Anglice inter se disputarent, suis propositis contradicerent. Nemo autem Latinam linguam a pueritia didicit. Vicipaedia nostra potius feliciusque cum Anglosaxonica, Arpitanica quin et Lojbana comparetur. Ecce tibi: barbarice inter se loquuntur et illi.

Elegi quas linguas primum venerunt in mentem. Ceterum, etiam si nos scribimus Anglicé nostris propositis contradicimus, primum quia hóc modo videtur Latiné loqui esse rem tam abstrusam atque Lojbanicé loqui, secundum quia hóc modo fovemus ut qui Latiné nondum bene sciunt multas paginas audeant scribere quæ numerum quidem paginarum augent, sed non efficiunt encyclopædiam Latinam seriam.

Inter Vicipaedianos profecto multi sunt qui linguam Latinam parum calleant, attamen verissimi amatores dilectoresque linguae nostrae sunt suamque operam sedulo et abstinenter navant, ut Vicipaedia Latina inter alias Vicipaedias quam maxime floreat. Equidem etiam hos amatores "ignorantes" magni facio in hoc mundo, qui non nauci habet linguam Latinam. Pars horum quos dixi amatorum aliquot menses tantum linguam Latinam gustaverunt. Cottidie magis magisque discunt.

Fortasse recté dicis, sed adde quod tales qui Latinam linguam calleant parum non tantum inter Wikipædianos numerantur, sed etiam facti sunt magistratús et aliis imperant quo modo scribatur Latiné, et hoc fit etsi perspicué dicitur in paginá petitionis: Magistratus ... Latinitatem optimam habeant.

Ego sæpius conatus sum hanc Latinam encyclopædiam multimodis augere sed postea veniunt quidam ignorantes, qui ne intelligibili quidem nedum boná possunt scribere Latinitate, et quæ addidi "corrigunt" (nempe in pejus) vel delent omnino. Tales ignorantes hujus "Latinæ" (nomine tenus) encyclopædiæ potiti sunt.

Nemo Vicipaediae Latinae potitus est! Nihil obstat, quominus homines optimum Latinitatis gradum consecuti inceptui Vicipaediano intersint. Accessus omnibus liber est (et esto). Si vero ea, quibus Vicipaediam augere conatus es, ab aliis deformata aut prorsus deleta sunt, hoc magnopere doleo praesertim cum optimo genere Latinitatis excellere videris. Si quis perperam quae addidisti habuit, suadeo, ut rationem repetas. Si de principiis scribendi edendique agitur, dubium non est, quin colloquium benignum auxilio sit.

Rem acu tetigisti, nam de legibus quibusdam orthographicis pessimis disputatio est, quam utrum benigné habuerim nescio, rationabiliter quidem et verís argumentis philologicis certo scio. Quam vide híc et præsertim híc: Auxilium pro editione (latine).

Ceterum, hocc obliviscimini: non omnes boni Latinistæ sciunt Anglicé; ergo si Anglicé disputatis, multos bonos Latinistas qui possent multa conferre ut "optimam encyclopædiam Latinam" crearemus male arcetis. Immo, hoc vobis dico: bene scio quia mihi nonnulli hoc dixerunt abundantiam linguæ Anglicæ in hac "Latiná" encyclopædiá esse causam quominus multi optimi Latinistæ non participent.

Num vera causa est ista ignoratio linguae Anglicae?

Profecto non sola, sed partim est, certo scio.

Me quoque piget imperii linguae Anglicae et pudet Anglice scribendo hoc imperium mea parte augere et hoc modo efficere, ut varietas linguarum mundi deminuat. Dum vivimus, cum paradoxis vivimus. Interdum tamen aptius esse puto lingua Anglica vel alia quadam lingua intelligibili uti "metalingua", cum opus est de principiis normisque inter convenas disceptare – et ita, ut quam plurimi minima titubatione intelligendi interesse possint.

Ut jam dixi, hóc modo invitantur ad disputationem ei qui, cum parum sciant Latiné, parum possunt quid sit bona rectaque Latinitas decernere.

Sin autem usu linguae Anglicae abstinendo re vera fieri potest, ut callidissimae Latinitatis auctores, ubicumque gentium sint, catervatim ad Vicipaediam Latinam contribuendam conveniant, rem opinor expeditu esse facilem. At timeo, ut hac ratione hoc pollicitum assequatur.

Profecto difficile erit ut "catervatim" veniant, sed equidem non paucis persuadere possim. Non tamen id possum toto corde facere donec huic encyclopædiæ ne ipse quidem fidam.

Utinam omnes Latinistae in claustris electronicis inter se garrientes gregatim adveniant peritiam suam Vicipaediae augendae impertituri! Opus aere perennius faciant. Neander 15:08, 29 Iulii 2007 (UTC)

Recté dicis, utinam! Sed dum híc imperent ignorantes qui et libertatem et Latinitatem aliorum se conculcare posse putent (et faciant), nemo Latinitatis peritus hanc rem respiciet. Avitus 09:25, 31 Iulii 2007 (UTC)

[recensere] Quæ est communitas Wikipædiæ Latinæ?

1. In Wikipedia Anglicá invenio paginam ubi recensentur omnes usores:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedians

Ubi possumus consulere qui sint usores nostræ Wikipædiæ Latinæ?

Ah! Tandem invéni responsum híc. Gratias mihi ago. ;-)
a) Page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedians has an interwiki link to Vicipaedia:Usores b) Categoria:Linguae usorum might be helpful as well c) Vicipaedia:Index has the entry "Usor" --Rolandus 13:48, 28 Iulii 2007 (UTC)

2. Sunt etiam in Wikipedia Anglicá paginæ ubi certiores fimus de systemate administrativo:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Wikipedia_adminship

Híc tamen, ego jam sæpius rogavi qui sint magistratús, quot, quomodo electi, et cetera. Quæso aliquis respondeat. Gratias vobis ago in antecessús.

Etiam secundo ipse invéni responsum rogato: http://la.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vicipaedia:Magistratus
Page Vicipaedia:Index has the entry "administrator". --Rolandus 13:48, 28 Iulii 2007 (UTC)
Ubi legitur: Magistratus usores certissimi, humanissimi, patientissimi sint. Latinitatem optimam habeant, etiam Vicipaediae Latinae experti sint.
Magistratus profecto ego creari non possum. ;-)
Quippe ut videtur.--Ioscius (disp) 14:16, 28 Iulii 2007 (UTC)

Avitus 08:55, 28 Iulii 2007 (UTC)

[recensere] Alii termini technici

Recens latinitas 'dolium sine fundum' est... Estne aliquem, qui me adiuvare potest interpretatione horum verborum: Moderne, Postmoderne, (aut anglice postmodernism etc.), Essay? --Partonopier 15:08, 28 Iulii 2007 (UTC)

Hmmm . . . modernus, a, um est adiectivus Latinus, tamen tibi dabo, modernum ipsud (hahahaha, get it? modernus is a modern word, hahaha). Postmodernus, autem, non mi placet. Essay sit commentatio, commentarium, vel similis.--Ioscius (disp) 15:29, 28 Iulii 2007 (UTC)
De modern inspicias Usor:Iustinus/Translator's Guide#fff2ff for "Modern". Et recte, essay est "commentatio" vel aliis contextibus "opus scholasticum." --Iustinus 19:59, 2 Augusti 2007 (UTC)
Sorry, forgot about this discussion. Thanks for your replies! I have also seen the entry in the translator's guide. However, this is not exactly what I meant. German 'Moderne' is a fixed expression for arts and litterature around 1900 (Kafka etc.). In English this would probably be 'modernism', if a word like this exists at all. So would it be sth. like 'modernismus' resp. 'postmodernismus' in Latin? (By the way, do you have 'postmodernism' or sth. comparable in English? In German this is used for the philosophy of Derrida, Deleuze, Umberto Eco etc.) --Partonopier 18:22, 9 Augusti 2007 (UTC)
See en:modernism and en:postmodernism. A quick answer would be Latin modernismus and postmodernismus. --Alex1011 19:33, 9 Augusti 2007 (UTC)

[recensere] Urbes Graeciae

Feci novam formulam {{Urbs Graeciae}}; mappam producit. Spero usum facilem esse. Si alii volunt addere eam formulam in paginis urbium Graecarum, valde bene! Longitudinem, latitudinem, nomina peripheriae et nomi, invenimus in Vicipaedia Anglica; haec nomina Latine habes hic: Index nomorum Graeciae. Etiam vide, exempli gratia, paginam Patrae.

I've made a new template for towns and cities in Greece; it adds a map. I hope it's easy to use. If others want to try it out on some Greek city pages, please do! We can usually get the latitude, longitude, name of region and prefecture, from the English Wikipedia page; a Latin form of these last two names can be found at Index nomorum Graeciae. For an example of the template in use, see Patrae. Andrew Dalby 17:40, 29 Iulii 2007 (UTC)

Awesome! Thanks, Andrew. (although I'm pretty sure mappa means "napkin", not map... Although, if you could write a template that produced a napkin, I'd certainly be impressed ;]) --Ioscius (disp) 17:56, 29 Iulii 2007 (UTC)
I meant to check that ... :[ Andrew Dalby 20:47, 29 Iulii 2007 (UTC)
No problem =] I was serious, though, I'd like to see the template which produces a napkin. Mirabile sit visu!!--Ioscius (disp) 18:11, 30 Iulii 2007 (UTC)

[recensere] Translatio lemmatis

Please see Disputatio Vicipaediae:Translatio lemmatis. --Rolandus 07:56, 30 Iulii 2007 (UTC)

[recensere] pagina mensis - physica electromagnetica

I'm about to make an executive decision, unless someone makes a clamor:

Our author of Nix, which was slated to be pagina mensis starting in a few hours, has left the building, and left the article in a state that is not exactly mensis worthy. Needless to say, no one else has improved it, either. Therefore, I'm planning on putting it back int eh proposed pages, and bumping Rafael and Xaverius' pages up a month. Physica electromagnetica will be for August, Hispania Visigothica for September.

Problems? --Ioscius (disp) 18:10, 30 Iulii 2007 (UTC)

Come September I will be able to devote time to improve Nix, but right now I'm swamped..I only have time for minor edits.--Rafaelgarcia 22:25, 30 Iulii 2007 (UTC)
No biggie, I've meant to work on it, too.--Ioscius (disp) 22:38, 30 Iulii 2007 (UTC)

[recensere] Southeastern

Does anyone know how to say Southeast and Southeastern in latin? --Harrissimo 11:10, 31 Iulii 2007 (UTC)

I suggest: quod ad orientalem et meridionalem partem spectat. Or: Euro subpositum, Volturno subpositum, sub Euro, sub Volturno. Vide etiam ventus et index geographicus. --Alex1011 11:30, 31 Iulii 2007 (UTC)
So what would be your recommendation for 'South Eastern Satakunta?' (Satakunta = Satagundia) --Harrissimo 16:13, 31 Iulii 2007 (UTC)
The adjective eurous (southeasterly) is attested in Vergil, so Satakunta euroa. --Iovis Fulmen 19:17, 31 Iulii 2007 (UTC)
Thanks, Harrissimo 19:22, 31 Iulii 2007 (UTC)

[recensere] ordinal numbers and years!

I see that our German friends always write ordinals numbers or years with a point, e.g 1861. (cfr. Theodorus Mommsen before my correction) . I believe that the point is used in German but not in Latin, is it right or wrong? Thank you?--Massimo Macconi 08:22, 1 Augusti 2007 (UTC)

Yes, the point signifies ordinal numbers in German, but with years we actually don't use it. That must have been a mistake. As far as I know, the Germans are the only ones who have that habit with the point, which means in Latin you probably don't use it, do you? When using ordinal numbers I usually try to write the name in letters, e.g. "decimus". But is there a latin sign for ordinal numbers, like the German point or the Spanish small "o" or "a"? --Partonopier 09:27, 1 Augusti 2007 (UTC)
Aye, we have such a thing: we usually just superscript the inflection. E.g. Hodie est 1us dies mensis Augusti. Loquar cum 1o homine quem video, etc . . . --Ioscius (disp) 13:19, 1 Augusti 2007 (UTC)
That's cumbersome, and most of our articles compress dates into their most efficient form; e.g., 1 Augusti 2007. For nondates, I, like Partenopier, prefer to see numbers written out. IacobusAmor 13:35, 1 Augusti 2007 (UTC)
Yes, sorry, Iacobe, when I said we, I meant modern Latinists in general, not necessarily Vicipaediani. Part of my answer also stems for, despite my ability to learn languages, and despite the fact that I know how to converse in several, I almost never learn the number systems . . . With Russian it is the worst, I don't even make an attempt: "я родилься v nineteen eighty three". --Ioscius (disp) 13:51, 1 Augusti 2007 (UTC)

[recensere] Frugi

There were some famous men during the Republic named Frugi. Is this name the indeclinable adjective frugi (formally the dative of frux but used as an indeclinable adjective), or is it a declinable 2nd declension plural noun? I've never heard of a Latin personal name having plural morphology before (even Caligula's nickname got singularized), but there's a first time for everything. —Angr 15:03, 1 Augusti 2007 (UTC)

Well, no one could answer my question, so I bought a copy of the Oxford Latin Dictionary and looked it up there. The answer is yes, the name Frugi is the indeclinable adjective and is thus also indeclinable. —Angr 20:25, 10 Augusti 2007 (UTC)
Apologies, Angr, for missing your question. Well, the OLD is a good thing to have on your shelves (if the shelves are strong enough) Andrew Dalby 09:04, 11 Augusti 2007 (UTC)
I think my bookshelves can take it. They're already carrying Liddell & Scott (which is bigger) and all four volumes of the Geiriadur Prifysgol Cymru, each of which is bigger than the OLD. (Although the OLD hasn't actually been on my bookshelf yet, it's still lying on a chair next to my desk where I can admire it.) —Angr 10:55, 11 Augusti 2007 (UTC)

[recensere] Confused by Cities/Stupefacior urbibus

The CFA page is extremely confusing, as it uses two formats for naming cities. Use the gen. after the comma? In parentheses? Nominative after the comma? This issue with listing U.S. cities and then states needs to be clearly figured out. When dealing with small cities I don't know what to do. I'm not going to make any links to city pages until this has been figured out conclusively. I know there has been some talk that it is standard to use the parentheses but I just need to confirm this as so. No one wants links to no-where or rides on the redirect highway. My state representative pages have places like Snowflake and Claypool, Arizona so I can't just use the name. Lacuna Luti. CAC!! (cachinno) Andy85719 03:24, 2 Augusti 2007 (UTC)

I agree it'll be good to have this clear. I always work to the standard you describe (adding, when necessary, name of country/state/region in the nominative, in parentheses) and I think some others do too, but let's make sure. And then, yes, by all means, let's try to correct some of the redlinks before they turn blue.
I 'like Lacuna Luti!
To comment on the choices available:
  1. I think a comma followed by the country/state/region name in the genitive is bad punctuation: you don't separate a possessive from its possessed by a comma.
  2. The normal Roman method was to do the above, but without the comma: thus Divona Cadurcorum and -- an example familiar to many who know the New Testament story -- Bethlehem Iudaeae ("Bethlehem of Judaea"). When I first arrived here a year ago I argued for this to be our standard, but I was persuaded, and I do believe now, that the next choice is clearer and better.
  3. I think the form where the country/state/region name appears in parentheses in the nominative is a fairly neutral method, that looks OK, and that is easy for anyone to apply (you don't even have to know what the genitive is!); and it has the great advantage to a Wikipedia editor that you can save yourself time, when making redirects, by using the Wikipedia:Pipe trick (or now: Vicipaedia:Pipe trick --Rolandus).
  4. I think a comma followed by the country/state/region name in the nominative is OK, but it lacks the ability to use the pipe trick; and it is strongly reminiscent of American English, so maybe it doesn't feel quite so neutral.

That's enough from me! Andrew Dalby 07:16, 2 Augusti 2007 (UTC)

A little known fact: it tunrs out that you can use the "pipe trick" with commas too. See the linked page. --Iustinus 03:04, 3 Augusti 2007 (UTC)
Andrew's #2 is the method that a cursory examination of sample pages suggests is the current Vicipaedia standard. It's not, however, the one that Andy is using for U.S. Congressional representatives: he's using #3. IacobusAmor 19:43, 3 Augusti 2007 (UTC)
But actually we have discussed this before, more than once, and #3 [ ... (nominative)] is the current Vicipaedia standard on real pages. So if this is what Andy has been doing, I think Andy's right and he should go ahead! Both Rolandus and I (maybe others too) have spent some time, over the last few months, changing the headings on real pages so that they match this standard, and I have written a lot of new place-name pages (like, hundreds) that match it too. It's a free world, but I would be a bit regretful if we now decide to change again.
I think Andy has been confused by the fact that there are many redirects, and many redlinks, that correspond to a different standard (usually #1 or #4). That's true; they were set up years ago. We just have to gradually change them -- and the sooner the better.
I haven't had the same experience as you, Iacobe: I have seen very few pages headed like #2 [... genitive]. Any I do see, I change, unless the form is actually the original full Roman name (as is Divona Cadurcorum). There aren't many of those. Andrew Dalby 12:01, 4 Augusti 2007 (UTC)

Andrew has cleaned up page Vicipaedia:Pipe trick and I have added a link to Disputatio:Liuvigildus (rex Visigothorum). — The idea was that the context should be in brackets and that the context is that what you normally do not mention when you are talking about something. I think you'd say "Liuvigildus" when you mean Liuvigildus. The brackets also have the advantage that they make a context different from an enumeration like The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe (see http://la.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vicipaedia:Dump/latest#fffff1_with_comma_.2816.29 for pages with a comma in the title). Then, if we had titles where commas indicate the context and titles where brackets do this, the sorting will not be by context, but first by style and then by alphabet, I fear. And then, I personally think that "Santa Barbara (California), which ..." looks clearer than "Santa Barbara, California, which ..." where the comma after "California" has a different function than indicating the context. --Rolandus 12:51, 4 Augusti 2007 (UTC)

Then I stand corrected—but putting curved parentheses within curved parentheses remains questionable: in prose of the sort that I edit, internal parentheses typically go inside square brackets, not curved ones. ¶ Yes, "Santa Barbara, California" doesn't seem right at all. Do we have attestations of how Classical writers handled such cases? Would they have said Santa Barbara Californiae or Santa Barbara in California or Santa Barbara Californiensium or what? IacobusAmor 13:02, 4 Augusti 2007 (UTC)
For example,
Ioannes Salazar (natus Alamosa (Coloratum) die 21 Iulii 1953) est. . . .
is wrong, and
Ioannes Salazar (natus Alamosae [Coloratum] die 21 Iulii 1953) est. . . .
would be right. (Note too that Alamosa is not in the locative, but it should be.) IacobusAmor 13:07, 4 Augusti 2007 (UTC)
Hm ... I understand what you mean. Yes, square brackets are even better for indicating a context and I would use them like you, if square brackets did not have this special meaning here. I cannot argue against that, just two things:
  • In a wiki it would not be necessary to write "natus Alamosa (Coloratum)", because it would be "natus [[Alamosa (Coloratum)|]]" which shows up as "natus Alamosa", which looks nice. The question remains, what generally should happen to links, when the data shall be printed. ;-)
  • I realize, that I make a difference between inline text and titles. This might not be correct, but I like titles as simple as possible. They are a technical thing for me. They represent the record. So they need to be just "good enough". Of course the first line in the page should use the correct title with all special characters. So I once proposed to write Christophorus Schoenborn (in the title) instead of Christophorus Schönborn. (See some snippets on page Usor:Rolandus#ff13f5l_characters.) This might be unaccaptable for others but it is the way names were written here when computers were limited to ASCII. ASCII = American Standard Code for Information Interchange. Knowing my background, you might understand my favour for this standardized form with brackets. Supposed, you are looking for "Batavia" in Bavaria: It might be simply Batavia, but there is a good chance that this is the page for the old name of the Netherlands. Then you have several options: Batavia (Bavaria) or Batavia, Bavaria (if it is an American city) or Batavia Bavariae or Batavia in Bavaria (depending on whether "Bavaira" is large or small and island or not, as I understand). Batavia (Bavaria) is the form which could be used in any case.
--Rolandus 14:12, 4 Augusti 2007 (UTC)
Yes, all is possible. The parentheses may be in the heading, but we can choose whether to incorporate them and their contents in the text. If it would nest in another pair of parentheses, then better not, I agree. To take Rolandus's example, you would hardly need the (Coloratum) in your text, because if anyone wants to know where this place is, they can click on the link and find out. Andrew Dalby 14:28, 4 Augusti 2007 (UTC)
OK, good: we're all in agreement. Andy should remember the locative though: in that context, it should be, not Alamosa, but Alamosae. IacobusAmor 14:36, 4 Augusti 2007 (UTC)
And using the pipe trick, it works fine if you write [[Alamosa (Coloratum)|]]e. Andrew Dalby 16:23, 4 Augusti 2007 (UTC)

[recensere] Conventiculum

Conventiculum Latinum Lexintoniense anni 2007 nunc est peractum. Paulo prius oratiunculam participibus dedi de re nostra, et computatro ad proiectorium ligato exiguas mutationes simul fecimus in pagina de conventiculo ipso. Sed doleo me nimium temporis consumere nolentem de nihil locutum esse praeter paginis ipsis. Conventiculares ergo nesciunt de disputatione, necnon de communitate nostra. Proh dolor, sed fortasse nunc anno proximo melius quid dicendum sit scivero. Sane haec omnia disci possunt post adventum ad vicipaediam, sed vereor ne, e.g. se posse de rebus nobiscum conferre nescii (et quidem angice!) nimis difficile videatur. Peius est de communitate nescire, quoniam est res summi momenti inter nos! --Iustinus 20:56, 2 Augusti 2007 (UTC)

[recensere] New XML-dump

We have a new XML-dump, see Vicipaedia:Dump/latest. --Rolandus 19:21, 3 Augusti 2007 (UTC)

[recensere] "Vir civilis," "legatus," etc.

Andy85719, as I pointed out some hours ago, you continue to generate page after page of congressional biographies without having sought consensus on the basic terminology. If any of these terms is inadequate, a lot of cleanup will have to be done. By vir civilis do you really mean an 'affable man'? or what? By legatus, do you really mean 'ambassador'? For 'representative in Congress', the best current term could merely be repraesentans, as we see in this sentence from Ephemeris: "Et repraesentantibus et Senatoribus militum reditus in annum 2008 per leges decernendus videtur" (http://ephemeris.alcuinus.net/nuntius.php?id=318). Ainsworth's says a 'politician' is a politicae scientiae peritus. Etc. IacobusAmor 02:32, 4 Augusti 2007 (UTC)

Speaking for myself, politicae scientiae peritus. sounds more like the translation for "political scientitist" not for "politician". --Rafaelgarcia 03:43, 4 Augusti 2007 (UTC)
But that's approximately what a politician is! According to the OED, the earliest surviving current definition of politician is "One versed in the theory or science of government and the art of governing." The problem here is that academicians have made political science a topic of academic study: "a social science concerned chiefly with the description and analysis of political and esp. governmental institutions and processes" (Merriam-Webster's Collegiate Dictionary). IacobusAmor 12:55, 4 Augusti 2007 (UTC)
At one point Andrew translated politician as "vir publicus"--Rafaelgarcia 03:47, 4 Augusti 2007 (UTC)
I simply adopted that form (if you mean me, Rafael!) from a categoria established before my time: Categoria:Viri publici. We had a problem with it, in fact, because we wanted to categorize Segolena Royal, and she could not be called either a vir publicus or a mulier publica (!). That was when someone suggested Categoria:Politicorum periti, and we used it. It has only two inhabitants, though, so it would be easy to change if a better term is agreed on. Andrew Dalby 12:01, 4 Augusti 2007 (UTC)
In Classical times, here's what legati were: "Legati may be divided into three classes: 1. Legati or ambassadors sent to Rome by foreign nations; 2. Legati or ambassadors sent from Rome to foreign nations and into the provinces; 3. Legati who accompanied the Roman generals into the field, or the proconsuls and praetors into the provinces" (from William Smith's A Dictionary of Greek and Roman Antiquities). More information is available at http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/Texts/secondary/SMIGRA*/Legatus.html). IacobusAmor 02:49, 4 Augusti 2007 (UTC)

I am sorry for this mistake, but I was merely going with the terminology perceived as correct on the CFA page. If you read the section you will see it use legatis publicus in the sentence "Rama legifera constat in duabus curiis, quae sunt Comitia a 435 legatis populi constituta et Senatus." I too thought repraesentans sounded better as I also think that Comitia may not be the right word. That is why I think people should be more cautious about declaring a pages Latin as checked when their are errors of this magnitude. I shall take it upon myself to move the people to Repraesentantes. As I am sure you all know, and I have figured out, crummy online latin dictionaries are dangerous as I found out with vir civilis after I looked at my Oxford Latin dictionary and found politician listed as: vir rerum publicarum peritus. This listing seems way too long and requires the invention of a mulier version. Eheu!!! By the way, legati does make sense in this case somewhat. The states are considered independent bodies within the U.S. Therefore, you could argue that they are ambassadors for the different regions within the states. The representatives are sent to Washington D.C. the capital, as legati were sent to Rome. Haa. Politicians as scientists. That's funny. Our politicians are known for being the least scientific people around. They don't know how to count and balance a budget, they are caught with prostitutes, molesting children, stealing money, lying, fighting, etc. Heck, the representative from Louisiana was found with $50,000

—$90,000, IIRC. IacobusAmor 21:37, 4 Augusti 2007 (UTC)—

stuffed in his freezer. Maybe he wanted some cold cash. Therefore, I think defining politicians as political scientists is a mistake. There are already political scientists and they usually can be found in Universities or large think tanks. I will refrain from making anymore pages until this is all sorted out. Once it is I will move the pages to the desired location. Before we go further, political terms need to be defined (Beside them I have put suggestions):

Representative (Repraesentans)
Congress (Congressus)
Parliament (legumlatorum, legatorum)

Senatus, says Ainsworth. IacobusAmor 21:37, 4 Augusti 2007 (UTC)

Speaker of the House (Orator Camerae)

Rogator, says Ainsworth. IacobusAmor 21:37, 4 Augusti 2007 (UTC)

Whip (amicitia, real meaning) (flagellum, calque)
Majority Leader (Ductor/Dux Maioris Partis)

'Party' usually factio? IacobusAmor 21:37, 4 Augusti 2007 (UTC)

Minority Leader (Ductor/Dux Minoris Partis)
House of Representatives (Camera Repraesentatum)
House of Commons (Camera Communis), (Camera Plebeia), (Comitia)

Senatus inferior & plebis conventus, says Ainsworth. + Don't leave out the House of Lords. IacobusAmor 21:37, 4 Augusti 2007 (UTC)

Assembly or National Assembly
Chamber of Deputies
Bill (lex)

'To bring in a bill to the house' = Ad senatum referre legem rogare (Ainsworth). 'The bill was thrown out'= Senatus legem propositam rejecit (Ainsworth). 'The bill is passed' = Lex a senatu admissa est ~ comprobata est (Ainsworth). IacobusAmor 21:37, 4 Augusti 2007 (UTC)

Supreme Court
Prime Minister

Primus minister. IacobusAmor 21:37, 4 Augusti 2007 (UTC)

Premier
Sultan
politician (male and female)

Politicus according to recent Ephemeris article.

House of Lords (Camera Domini)
House of the Senate (Curia), (Camera Senatus)
Members of Parliament
Committee
Cabinet (summum principis consilium), (ministrorum consilium)
Delegate and Delegation
Caucus
Political Party (Factio)
Filibuster
Act of Congress (Decretum Congressus)
Act of Parliament (Decretum Legumlatori)

'An act or deed of the commons' = Plebis-scitum (Ainsworth). IacobusAmor 21:37, 4 Augusti 2007 (UTC)

Page (puer, puella)
Commander-in-Chief (ductor/dux exercitus)
Sergent at Arms
Member of Parliament
Member of the House of Representatives
Congressperson
constituency
Liberal (liberalis)
Conservative (conservativus)
Moderate (mediocris)
Impeach (accuso)
Electoral College
Secretary (i.e Secretary of State)
Department
Minister (i.e. Minister of Defense)

Minister! IacobusAmor 21:37, 4 Augusti 2007 (UTC)

Ministry
Administration (i.e. Kennedy Administration)
Veto (intercessio n., veto)
Slurge
Pardon (ignosco, venia)
Reprieve
Legislate v. (legem fero)
Legislation (legem datio)
Legislator (legem lator)

Rambling again. Anyway, now that we have a consensus on the titling of U.S. city names, I shall work on them and try to update the infobox to provide the option of adding more data. Salve. Andy85719 18:46, 4 Augusti 2007 (UTC)

Andy, your politicians sound very much like other politicians. :) Andrew Dalby 19:05, 4 Augusti 2007 (UTC)
Wow, looks like the start of a glossarium. ;-) We already have some: Categoria:Glossaria. --Rolandus 19:06, 4 Augusti 2007 (UTC)
Dux Maioris
Oh. Dux Maioris Partis was supposed to stand for the Majority leader in the House of Representatives or Senate in the U.S., not a party, which scilicet is factio. The majority leaders are elected by their peers and help get people into cushy committee positions. The Rogator Camerae is usually the Dux maioris partis factionis suae. The minority leaders are also elected by their peers and fill the same role except it has the additional perk of rallying the opposition, sort of the U.S. version of an opposition leader. I still don't know what the Whip should be called. This person usually acts as the arm of the majority or minority to rally support, or ut in forma eos flagellet. Amicitia sounds nicer because they really are liaisons but the calque flagellum makes sense because it is what the name is meant to imply.
Aut Parliamentum aut Congressus
I think that Ainsworth might be a little wrong.
—In what respect? It's a British dictionary from the late eighteenth and early nineteenth centuries, and surely when it referred to Parliament as the senatus, it had good grounds for doing so. At that time, Parliament kept a summary of its proceedings in Latin, so (buried in libraries somewhere) there must be ample evidence for Latin renderings of many of the terms you seek. It would be reasonable to expect that Ainsworth would have many of those that pertain to the British political system. IacobusAmor 05:56, 5 Augusti 2007 (UTC)
A parliament implies a parliamentary system in which the executive is answerable to the body as opposed to a presidential system where the separation of powers is stricter and heads of government are independent of the legislative body. Congresses are for presidential system governments, parliaments for parliamentary. Although it might not seem like a big deal, the difference between the two forms of government are striking. A president is more like a King that has to ask for permission to do things and has tenure so that he isn't likely to get fired. A prime minister is more like a legislator with special powers. They are considered first among equals. A president can veto bills that he doesn't like while the prime minister can only vote against it, though as the head of the majority a vote against it by all his party kills it. Also, parliamentary discourse is sometimes a bit nastier, especially during times of conflict. You can't really yell at a president without the Secret Service staking your house out but Members of Parliament can berate the prime minister with nasty things during Prime Minister Questions. The Magna Charta says parliamentum, therefore I think that we can use that instead.
A possible problem with that is that quite a few centuries have elapsed between Magna Charta and the present day, and languages (including Latin) change. The English call their highest legislative body their parliament, and have long since given up calling it their witenagemot. Of course parliamentum will be readily understood by novices, and that could be a point in its favor. Generally with technical or special vocabularies (as with music, politics, religion, and so on), the problem for Vicipaedians is not to invent terms, but to find them. IacobusAmor 05:56, 5 Augusti 2007 (UTC)
It makes more sense and is understood at a glance while if you always see Congress you'll end up having to find out which kind. The original parliament, which developed in England was called the Curia Regis, for it advised the King. Not a very good name now because monarchs are usually relics and rubberstamp whatever the parliaments give them. Some countries have a plethora of parties.
Multae Factiones
I looked at Great Britain's and Canada's page and lost count, as opposed to the U.S. which has two main parties with fringe parties that never get elected and are subject to jokes. Funny named parties might be tricky. If a name is too funny like the U.K.'s "Monster Raving Loony" or "Rainbow Dream Ticket" we should translate it, add it to a index factionum and write the name in English or German or whatever language it is in next to it, as they do in Chinese and Japanese.
Department or Ministry?
I also believe that we should standardize terminology, i.e. what one would call in the U.S. a Department and in Commonwealth countries a Ministry should all be called Ministerium the same with Secretary and Minister all being called Minister. Those things are always tricky to me and the U.S. is odd for using an antiquated meaning of Secretary.
—Ainsworth defines 'secretary of state' as scriba regius, publicis rebus praepositus. It defines 'the king's private secretary' as regis scriba privatus. It defines 'a secretaryship' as officium ejus qui est ab epistolis. It defines 'a minister of state' as rerum publicarum administer. It defines 'minister of justice' as justitiae curator. IacobusAmor 05:56, 5 Augusti 2007 (UTC)
Originally the American English usage of the word minister was applied only to foreign ambassadors, a usage derived for it being used to describe the work of a missionary, and so the U.S. called the Ambassador to China the Minister of China until a couple decades ago when they changed it to the word Ambassador which is of French origin. The standardization cuts down on dead-end links to obscure names used only in one country. Another thing I want to add to my novel of writing is we need to also find a way of translating religions. When I was trying to fill in information for the Representatives, I couldn't find many religions.Andy85719 03:52, 5 Augusti 2007 (UTC)

[recensere] Religions/Religio

Some religions that we need to think about translating are:

Baptist
Souther Baptist
Episcopalian
Methodist
Scientology (In some places, like Germany, considered a cult.)
Evangelists
Christian Science
Unitarian
Lutheran
Presbyterian
Amish(A group of Anabaptists who don't believe in technology and still live in houses without electricity, grow large beards, ride carriages, and grow their own food.)
Quakers(Religion with origin in England. So named because God made them quake. Richard Nixon was a Quaker, although this isn't a reflection all Quakers)
The English List of religions has a ridiculous number of listed religions. By no means do we need this many.Andy85719 03:52, 5 Augusti 2007 (UTC)

[recensere] Blank talk pages

I am having troubles with (only) some talk pages. They are displayed blank (without content, headers and even navigation). What's going on? --Rolandus 18:50, 3 Augusti 2007 (UTC)

Out of ten pages that I checked more or less randomly, only two were non-blank. --Neander 19:30, 3 Augusti 2007 (UTC)
Same problem with Vicipaedia:Porta_communis. --Rolandus 19:21, 3 Augusti 2007 (UTC)
Andy's was blank when I checked, and I hope he reads my query about legatus before he finishes hundreds more Congressional articles! IacobusAmor 19:40, 3 Augusti 2007 (UTC)
'See also the messages on Usor:Avitus' userpage (yes, userpage, not talkpage). --Rolandus 06:15, 4 Augusti 2007 (UTC)

To whom shall we report this problem? It's not solved yet. --Rolandus 06:15, 4 Augusti 2007 (UTC)

I too have the same problem, thank you for your help.--Massimo Macconi 06:30, 4 Augusti 2007 (UTC)

[recensere] List of pages which are displayed blank

(please add the pages which do not work for you)

[recensere] Seems it has been fixed

I have reported that as a bug to http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/.

Another user has reported that problem as well: http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10795

--Rolandus 09:16, 4 Augusti 2007 (UTC)

[recensere] Reporting technical problems

Please see Vicipaedia:Reporting technical problems. --Rolandus 10:42, 4 Augusti 2007 (UTC)

[recensere] Wikicharts

What people are interested in: http://toolserver.org/~leon/stats/wikicharts/ --Rolandus 16:00, 4 Augusti 2007 (UTC)

[recensere] Discretiva_pages

If we have a page Titan (satelles), we should also have a page Titan, I think. So I checked our pages for such cases:

Vicipaedia:Dump/latest#f2f3f1tiva_pages

At least Titan should be a redirect to Titan (satelles).

--Rolandus 20:15, 4 Augusti 2007 (UTC)

Agreed -- a redirect to begin with. Someone then might replace the redirect with an article about the mythological Titans. That should be a useful "dump", Rolande. I'll take a look. Andrew Dalby 08:53, 5 Augusti 2007 (UTC)
We have several options. We have ...
We could ...

What method is the best might differ from case to case. --Rolandus 11:18, 5 Augusti 2007 (UTC)

[recensere] Objections_to_the_proposed_changes_to_the_side_bar

Are there any objections? Please see Disputatio_Vicipaediae:Pagina_prima#f4f1f3ions_to_the_proposed_changes_to_the_side_bar. --Rolandus 11:09, 5 Augusti 2007 (UTC)

Can we do #1 and #2? (see Disputatio_Vicipaediae:Pagina_prima#f4f1f3ions_to_the_proposed_changes_to_the_side_bar) --Rolandus 18:50, 7 Augusti 2007 (UTC)
I'd say yes. Separately, I also vote, as a temporary measure, to rename "Fasciculos in Communia onerare" and "Fasciculos onerare" to "Documenta in Communia apponere" and "Documenta apponere", respectively.--Rafaelgarcia 19:44, 7 Augusti 2007 (UTC)

[recensere] Percentage_of_anonymous_edits

See Vicipaedia:Census#f1f3f1tage_of_anonymous_edits. --Rolandus 19:09, 7 Augusti 2007 (UTC)

[recensere] Navigation

I have changed the file MediaWiki:Sidebar and added two new links, according to Disputatio_Vicipaediae:Pagina_prima#f4f1f3ions_to_the_proposed_changes_to_the_side_bar. So it is done partly. --Rolandus 05:31, 10 Augusti 2007 (UTC)

Did the next step, see http://la.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Sidebar&curid=34091&diff=310801&oldid=310247 --Rolandus 06:59, 11 Augusti 2007 (UTC)

[recensere] Latinitas

Vicipaedia:Latinitas seems a useful starter page but I didn't see any links to it from Pagina prima, Porta communis, or Auxilium pro editione pages. Maybe I missed them, or maybe I need to add some? Andrew Dalby 12:40, 10 Augusti 2007 (UTC)

[recensere] Declension of Acronyms

Is there a Vicipaedia policy or norm regarding declension of acronyms such as CFA or URSS? Should acryonyms be regarded as undeclinable or should for example CFA be treated like an a-declension noun? genitive =>CFAe Or as a i-declension after civitates? genitive=>CFAum.--Rafaelgarcia 01:20, 11 Augusti 2007 (UTC)

Have you seen this? I have no idea about policy, but it seems that USA, and so CFA, can be declined as a 1st declension fem. --Harrissimo 20:01, 12 Septembris 2007 (UTC)
Yes, one possiblity is to g